(no subject)

[leftbehindagain]

For the sake of informing those who can't backread the network, it's apparently possible to snap an infiltrator back to themselves without killing the overlay. Unlike going the other way around, I really doubt someone could use it on themselves for the obvious reason of not knowing they could in the first place, but it may be an option, if you need someone back and quickly.

The downside is it doesn't return the person to their original body - it functions like that thing where people end up infiltrating and not at the same time.

Comments

[amadine]

So it switches who's in control of the possession, then?

[leftbehindagain]

...I hadn't thought of it like that, but more or less.

[amadine]

That could certainly be one way of maneuvering things in our favour, if an Infiltrator's being particularly obstructive...

[leftbehindagain]

It could.

Depending on the type and degree of obstruction, there may be cases where the more usual method is better in the long run. [Not that Naoki likes the idea or could do it himself, but.] But this is another option, if anyone's available who finds they can do it.

[amadine]

Oh, don't mistake me - I'm not about to balk at someone slitting the throat of a person who's in dire need of it. But it's a more palatable option if it's something that's in our way, but not necessarily relevant to our goals once we're gone.

[leftbehindagain]

I didn't figure you would. In any case, considering I managed this completely by accident, I don't know how widespread the ability might be.

[amadine]

It's difficult to say. It could be something completely new, or it could be that you're just the first person to feel a pressing need to retrieve someone.

[leftbehindagain]

Exactly. It may not be an option enough people have to really count on it, but on the other hand, now that we know it's there, it may spread.

[amadine]

Which could cause its own problems, if people aren't selective with when they restore their friends' control of the situation. Every new trick is an opportunity and a risk both, these days.

[leftbehindagain]

True. [He's probably lucky Helena wasn't in a position to really upset anything by having that happen.]

[senpaidol]

Iiiii probably need to study up on that. I apparently suck at identifying Infiltrator bad guys, but that sounds really handy for when someone gets stuck in a role they wouldn't like or that's causing problems...

[leftbehindagain]

None of us had a good way to really identify him, this time. At least we knew who it most likely was. [Unlike fucking Blitzkopf.]

It wouldn't hurt to have more people around who can pull that off, though.

[senpaidol]

Honestly, if we did that enough, it'd make solving problems a lot easier, huh?

You want to teach me over the network, or meet up at Aiya?

[leftbehindagain]

In person might be easier. [And in any case, he doesn't want to explain it over a public channel.]

[senpaidol]

Right. I'll meet you there in a minute, if you're not busy.

[Later...]

I'd offer to buy you dinner as payment if Kanji charged for anything. Or money meant anything here.

action 5ever

[leftbehindagain]

You don't need to, really. Even if it did mean something. [She's team backup, for... basically all the teams. That's more than enough.]

Given that I pulled this off entirely by accident, I'm figuring out how it works as much as anyone else is, really. I talked to Hanamura about it for a while, and... we figure it's kind of the opposite of infiltrating yourself. Instead of finding someone you can be, it pulls the Traveler up to the forefront.

[senpaidol]

[She nods, sitting down and staring carefully at a point in space somewhere near the menu board.]

So it's like...if I understand it right, there's two "yous" in an Infiltrator. The native person who's maybe kind of like you, and the you from Liminal Space who's just kind of sitting there where you can remember stuff but not actually do anything. Right?

[leftbehindagain]

Something like that. The extent to which any of us have a say in what our overlay does is questionable, but there's definitely someone else in there. If nothing else, this confirmed it.

[senpaidol]

It's kinda like a Persona, when you think about it. Just less...natural? Like I don't think, I dunno, Citrine normally had part of herself that looked like a 21st century human pop idol just waiting to express herself with magical powers, I just kinda got put in there.

I wonder if switching is anything like bringing a Persona out, though...

[leftbehindagain]

That... may depend on who's being restored, but I would expect it to be completely different. This is just shifting the balance in terms of who's more conscious of what's going on.

[senpaidol]

So...less pushing part of you out to do something and more like the driver and passenger in a car switching seats, then.

[She thinks she gets it. It'd account for the difference between "two different people" and "parts of the same person" in that first draft analogy.]

[Video]

[neverfeltthatway]

...That's more useful than I expected.

I think I could probably manage it too, if I needed to - I'd simply expected it to separate the person from their overlay more fully, so I hadn't come across a situation where it seemed necessary yet. [And he wouldn't mess with someone's head like that unless it seemed necessary - or he'd previously gotten permission to do so.]

[leftbehindagain]

[He'd be surprised if Armin couldn't pull it off, really.]

Considering it happened by accident, I don't have much room to talk about it 'seeming necessary.' But... apparently it doesn't actually pull you out of the overlay, which means, at least as things stand, that can only be done by the Arcana directly.

[neverfeltthatway]

[He smiles a little.] I discover an alarming number of skills by accident too.

Pulling you entirely out of an overlay could cause problems, though it'd have its advantages too. I guess we'll find out if that's something we can learn too. [He pauses, thinking.] ...Have the Arcana done that, much?

[leftbehindagain]

I think the only time they've had cause to was when the Illuminants broke into Liminal Space, back in Misericordia.

[neverfeltthatway]

Ah, all right. The way you said it, it sounded like it might have happened more.

[There's a long silence before he continues.] ROSE did it to me once, too, on the grid. But she killed me at the same time.

[So maybe not the best experience to base attempting the skill on.]

[leftbehindagain]

If they have, I haven't heard about it. And either way, the point stands that they're the only ones we know of who can.

That sounds more like the standard 'death resets you to investigating' than anything else. [He's not even going to ask what brought that act on.]

[neverfeltthatway]

[He shakes his head.] No. She brought me back, then killed me. I was myself again for just a moment before I died.

[leftbehindagain]

...huh. Okay, that is slightly different.

[neverfeltthatway]

It was deserved, at the time - my overlay had been corrupted by the automata, and was trying to corrupt her. She... just sort of reversed the flow of data, burning me away from the inside.

Maybe she just intended to kill my overlay, and didn't have time - or didn't care enough - to spare me the experience. Or maybe it has something to do with how these things worked on the grid, since I was a program at the time.

[leftbehindagain]

We were all Programs at the time.

Either way, it sounds more like self-defense on her part, or possibly a reflex she couldn't contain or something. [They can't really know without knowing more about how the Arcana tick.]

[neverfeltthatway]

She definitely seemed in control of what she was doing.

I just brought it up because it's the only other time one of the arcana has separated Traveler from overlay, that I know of.

[leftbehindagain]

And that does make it a data point, one way or another.

[neverfeltthatway]

Giving us two. Three, if you count our knowledge of the separate ability we do have to free people from infiltration. Either way, not a lot to work with.

[leftbehindagain]

There's something they know about the process that we don't, then, and who knows how long that might take to uncover.

[neverfeltthatway]

[Armin grimaces a little.]

That about sums it up for now, I suppose.