thornsofmalkav: (Default)
Thorne ([personal profile] thornsofmalkav) wrote in [community profile] synopsychic2017-11-28 10:39 pm

A few hours after Souji’s Arcana discussion

[Once again, Liminal Space is being subject to a livestream of Thorne making important announcements! This time, she’s in a library study room, with books and papers of her and a Malik-created map-in-progress hung up behind her--and the map in question seems to be to an unusual location indeed.

She is wearing a black pith helmet with a pink band.]


Hi! Thorne here, with Alcuin playing cameraman as usual. Once again, I’ve got some important discoveries to share with people, but in this case these discoveries were made by a group of us. In fact, I pretty much spent the entire expedition we went on recording everyone else’s data. But before I talk about what we found out, I should probably explain about the expedition.

So. Anyway. Before Yensid, Matthew was talking to a couple of us about an attempt to bridge to someone's conversation space that went awry back during Harrogate and the topic of ‘what about the dead Arcana? where are their spaces?’ came up and we kind of decided to try to see if it would be possible to Liminal Bridge our way to Fortune’s space. Then the Jaunt happened, but when we got back we decided to go along with the expedition and get a few friends with, like, relevant skills to help us out.

So not long after the liminal changed, the eight of us set out to find Fortune’s space. That is, Matthew, me, Claudia, Riddick, Alcuin, Liara, Raidou, and Malik. This, by the way, is the map Malik drew of the place we found.

[The ‘camera’ of the livestream switches to a memory of looking over this very same map, lying on a table.]

And this is what it looked like to us.

[The memory switches to show Alcuin’s view of the actual landscape:

Once this used to be a more joyful place - or at least a more exciting one. The walls are a washed-out brown that might once have been red, and the carpet, or what remains of it, a deep grey that might once have been blue. Whatever remains of those original colors is long gone - an effect that extends to the visiting Travelers themselves, if they have anything red or blue on their person. Where vivid color can be found, green, purple, black, and white dominate.

That covers the broken wheels and beheaded status of various winged animals, the clumps of poker chips (always four, nine, thirteen or seventeen), the scattered and torn cards, the wrecked clockwork slot machines (always in groups of four), the torn felt of card tables - if ever a casino died and went to hell, this is it. There are two mostly intact tables, one round and ringed with chairs, one squarish and hosting some kind of half-wrecked card structure. Pride of place in the center of the space goes to a positively giant capsule machine with a glass top and FORTUNA AUTOMAT emblazoned across the front, flanked by headless statues.

Everything else is broken or dilapidated, and covered in shards of broken mirror.


And then the livestream cuts back to Thorne.]


Anyway. We found out a lot of shit while we were there, so I can’t go massively into detail, but I’ll summarize the most important parts and then you guys can either check out the copies of our records of the expedition that we have at the library or ask us for more details. And there’s definitely some cool details in there.

Okay, so the first and most important thing we found out there is that we know why Lovers is back. Remember that roulette wheel table with the thrones? [She indicates it on the map behind her.] That’s evidently where the Arcana hold their big group meetings. One of us did an Interface of the table and it showed part of one of those meetings, with Emperor yelling at Hermit and Death for not having mutually exclusive win conditions and Moon saying that it was one of Emperor’s Travelers who’d been the person to fulfil Hermit’s condition and then there was a lot of yelling, before Chariot banged its fist on the table and told the others to enact Fortune’s contingencies.

So when you combine that with the ball being in the VI slot on the roulette wheel and the position of the glass blocker things, it seems pretty clear that Fortune’s contingencies were basically to add another Arcana back in so it would be an even number again and spin to see who got to come back. Which was Lovers.

The broken thrones around the table also got us some good information. We figured out by the numbers that they belonged to the dead Arcana. A couple of us Interfaced those too and they all gave us information about their archetype and also we think something about how they died.

Hierophant has Lovers talking to someone named Ix. They’re saying that they ‘can’t let them continue like this,’ but they ‘care too much’ to take them out of the game ‘the other way.’ Only it seems that Ix wasn’t Hierophant, but Hermit, so it’s kind of weird. Basically, it’s from when she was imprisoning Hermit before the Grid?

Fortune’s showed a glimpse of a January-type elf carrying an armadillo and then medieval Forest Folk and humans from Ye Olde Yensid looking for their amulet parts. This is important, actually, because Liara found a playing card city in the shape of, like, the Ye Olde version of the city we were in during the last Jaunt and Claudia found out that the slot machines were of elven manufacture dating back to the plague. And Raidou found out when he Interfaced them that there was no way to get a winning combination on them.

Star’s showed this liminal space that was modeled over a Dia de los Muertos celebration where everyone is freaked out--I think it’s after Moebius, because Armin told me at one point that’s why he wasn’t comfortable celebrating Dia--and also people rioting outside a hotel.

And then there’s Temperance, who it turns out was the first to die, not Fortune. Pretty much everything we found indicated that--and Yakumo confirmed it in the discussion Souji started.

But yeah. Temperance’s has someone saying “Lock it down. The whole space. We can’t afford the risk of them getting in here--” and then it got cut off because a fuck-huge Arcanum showed up, but more about that later. Anyway, Yakumo’s already filled in earlier that Lovecraft monsters killed Temperance.

Anyway. There were some cards that had some interesting stuff on them when they were interfaced but you can look those up in our reports or we’ll tell you about them. Because the last thing we need to talk about is this. [She indicates the fuck-huge gashapon in the center of the map.]

That, my dudes, is called the Fortuna Automat and from what we can tell, it’s how they scoop us up. By means unknown, we end up in capsules in the machine and between Jaunts there’s an Arcanum that Fortune trusted who comes in, empties out the machine, and then decides who gets each of us. They do that, strangely enough by working it out by hand on a fuck-huge whiteboard that was lying on the ground by the machine. There’s also a printer that prints off lists of people who are coming out of dungeons soon so they know to go and claim them too.

Anyway, the Fortuna Automat is also pretty much how we got caught. See, while everyone else was doing their thing exploring and taking pictures and Interfacing and stuff, Malik kind of sort of tried to climb up the chute to the Automat and try to get in the big glass bulb with the capsules. He managed to make it up to the top of the chute, but since the way to get into the glass bulb was blocked off, he…

… well, he tried to use Convert on it. And the Arcanum showed up. Alcuin, show them the rest of it.

[Everyone is treated to the memory of staring up at a fucking huge Arcanum that her Chosen will likely recognize as Justice. A short conversation follows.

And then we see Thorne in her pith helmet in the library again.]


So. Yeah. Like I said, we’ve got written records in the library and we’re here to answer questions if you have them? And, like, I for one would definitely be happy to speculate with everyone what some of this shit means, because this trip, like, was super duper informative. These are just, like, the biggest things.
theflyingone: they took my freakin kidney (down)

[personal profile] theflyingone 2017-11-29 09:08 am (UTC)(link)
That is also what I thought, and currently there is no pressing need to buy time.

[ Psychic Protection I ]

I am sorry. I cannot say for sure, but it seems likely that I was the one who allowed Hermit to tie.
photonicfighter: (Dakki upgrade - stare)

[personal profile] photonicfighter 2017-11-29 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
...Justice. That was Justice, who sent you all back.

This is all very useful information. Thank you for taking the risk and trying this.
crouching_sin: (i nominate you for a darwin award)

[personal profile] crouching_sin 2017-11-29 07:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Arcanum is indeed the singular of arcana.

Also... fantastic. It's not as if I haven't seen enough gashapon crap where I live.
crouching_sin: (call me 'cute' and die)

[personal profile] crouching_sin 2017-11-29 07:39 pm (UTC)(link)
... All right. So what is Interface, and what is Convert?

[He needs that to make a little bit more context out of this... mess.]
leftbehindagain: (a concoction that sometimes works)

[personal profile] leftbehindagain 2017-11-29 09:00 pm (UTC)(link)
It's coming off like he has higher standards for everyone else's behavior than his own. [Really, this feels like the kind of thing he got so upset about in Nova Venezia.]

And for all that dungeon was about making efforts to understand where he's coming from, it feels more like he means the loud protesting about not caring what anyone else thinks.
papacerberus: (This is worrysome.)

[personal profile] papacerberus 2017-11-29 10:02 pm (UTC)(link)
[There's a heavy sigh when Malik's convert is brought up, but otherwise, Lupa waits until Thorne is done to chime in.]

So if another double win can be arranged, the Arcana brought back will be random. That will require more care.

Can anyone fill me in on what was discovered in the other dead Arcana's space? Did anyone interface with the printer that informs of dungeon arrivals?

I believe I have many more questions to ask Emperor very soon.

claudiometer: onna laptop (research-fu: new school)

[personal profile] claudiometer 2017-11-29 10:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Matthew and Riddick were the ones who saw the other space up close and personal. One of them might be willing to talk to you about it. [Almost certainly not over the network, if it's Matthew, but.]

I don't think anyone interfaced the printer, but Liara did give it a good non-Interface-y poke.
papacerberus: (Exchange of ideas.)

[personal profile] papacerberus 2017-11-29 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
[Well, Lupa happens to be listening closely while the question is asked, and he can answer it, so!]

Interface is the sharing of data between two beings, or a being and an object. Data can move one way, or both ways, and in general what is sent can be controlled. Only the initiator needs to possess the ability in order for the exchange. I've heard that it can be exhausting, but I've never found that particularly true for myself. A drawback is that it is the raw data, not reconstituted into memories, like we're being shown here.

Convert, to my understanding, is an attempt to alter or overwrite an object or being's data for a specific purpose. The one time it came up as a possibility in the past, the intent was to use it to remove a forcibly programmed loyalty that forced a sentient being into enslavement. The plan at the time was to use Convert to give the enslaved being loyalty to its own needs instead.
papacerberus: (At peace.)

[personal profile] papacerberus 2017-11-29 10:42 pm (UTC)(link)
I will go searching for them, then. Thank you.

[Lupa is almost disappointed.]

That's unfortunate. Looking at the data might have given us an idea of how to determine when people are coming back by ourselves. Still, if Liara is listening, I'd appreciate a detailed run-down of what was learned from the printer.
photonicfighter: (Default)

[personal profile] photonicfighter 2017-11-29 11:29 pm (UTC)(link)
It looked like the sort of approach that I would have expected her to take, too. She's always been very calm and straightforward.
photonicfighter: (Dakki upgrade - profile)

[personal profile] photonicfighter 2017-11-29 11:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I have to wonder if a different Arcana had been responsible for taking you back, if it would have gone so well. Maybe to her, that's... just. Fair. And I wonder what that says, if that qualifies as fair?
brokers: (Skeptical)

[personal profile] brokers 2017-11-30 12:13 am (UTC)(link)
It's also inaccurate. I did not connect my mind to the printer, but I did connect my omni-tool to transfer the files. [Because some people come from worlds where people have computers, instead of being computers.] The contents were tables of possible...patrons for those who returned after the mass marking began, separated by Jaunt.

I do not think it is likely to contain data that would let us build a predictive model, but the possibility is still worth investigating. I'm willing to share the files, if you want them.
highsteaks: (listen)

[personal profile] highsteaks 2017-11-30 12:28 am (UTC)(link)
Wait, that's what a Convert is? Jeez.
photonicfighter: (Dakki upgrade - face forward)

[personal profile] photonicfighter 2017-11-30 12:38 am (UTC)(link)
It's a private space. One that they were still using... and maybe one with things they'd prefer that we don't touch. But it looks like nothing was broken... so maybe that was good enough?

Maybe they expect us to be getting into that sort of thing. Maybe they've just accepted that we're going to test at the limits of this place?
leftbehindagain: (Default)

[personal profile] leftbehindagain 2017-11-30 12:52 am (UTC)(link)
I'd noticed. The problem is that after a while, people only believe the tsun part.
papacerberus: (Proud papa.)

[personal profile] papacerberus 2017-11-30 01:26 am (UTC)(link)
[There's a sense of both amusement and bemusement coming along with Lupa's voice.]

I would not have thought to use a device for the transfer, but I wonder if it wouldn't be safer in the case of viruses or similar.

[But even as Lupa says that, he knows he'll probably just stick with Interface. He's already got the worst virus mankind could conceivably create, and Interface doesn't require equipment that is already compatible.]

I would like a copy of the files, if possible. We won't know if we can create something that will predict dungeons if we don't at least make an attempt.
papacerberus: (Exchange of ideas.)

[personal profile] papacerberus 2017-11-30 01:30 am (UTC)(link)
I may be missing the finer details, as I have no intent of ever learning the skill, but yes, that's my understanding.
crouching_sin: ([+ MC] protect me from nightmares)

[personal profile] crouching_sin 2017-11-30 03:04 am (UTC)(link)
For any more useless Latin questions, just ask me.

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