(no subject)

[leftbehindagain]

I wouldn’t normally offer some of this on a wide scale, but if Harrogate’s looking likely, we need to be as well-armed for it as we can. I can also help with explaining how to de-infiltrate people, and if anyone wants help improving their mental defenses I can do that too.

It might also be helpful to have more people who can punch through network barriers – for one thing, there’s the chance they’ll split the group again, and for another, we’ve had network barriers on the same jaunt before. If it happened in Achaia, it could happen again here.

Bridging network gaps works about once a week, and de-infiltrating people… I’ve only ever managed it once on a given jaunt. I’m not sure if that’s a hard limit or if I just didn’t have cause to, but it’d be better to have as many possible openings for de-infiltration as we can get.

Comments

[thornsofmalkav]

I'm all for learning de-infiltration.

[leftbehindagain]

All right.

[private, double-protected]

I would have been happy to give you the instructions regardless. Generally I'm not comfortable handing out this... intrusive stuff, but Harrogate calls for desperate measures.

As far as I've been able to work out, it works on a similar basis as getting information about a jaunt world right when we show up, and there's definitely overlap with being able to infiltrate someone, except you can't pull yourself out of your own overlay.

private protection x2 5ever

[thornsofmalkav]

I can definitely do the first of those things. I did it back in the Shoals. I've never done the second, but I've got a theoretical understanding of how.

[leftbehindagain]

That should help, then. It's... essentially finding the core of a Traveler's mind inside the infiltrator, and giving them control again. If there's a way to separate someone from their overlay without killing them, I think that's several steps beyond any of us at this point.

[thornsofmalkav]

Yeah. I mean, I think the Bando guys could do it via exorcism, but that's the only way I can think to do it.

[leftbehindagain]

Or Newport, since that's where it happened to Naoto. Even then, that's just kicking the Traveler out, not giving them a new body.

[thornsofmalkav]

Yeah and it's not like any of us have learned how, I think.

[leftbehindagain]

The only time I know of people being pulled out of their overlays and put back into other bodies right away was when the Illuminants broke into Liminal, and even that's a special circumstance.

[If it were possible, Naoki figures it'd take a deep familiarity with both the network and Liminal Space, and that's something not many people can claim to have.]

[thornsofmalkav]

Yeah, because with liminal space they could just wake up their real bodies once they pulled them out of the people they were possessing. Although I guess if someone could use the network to draw them out then they'd do the same thing, like when the overlays die.

Huh. You know, that might not be a bad long-term psychic network goal to work toward.

[leftbehindagain]

Well, it was also the Arcana who did the separating, according to Maria-chan. Not exactly normal circumstances, or anything we can really use as a test. I don't know if that was close enough to the end of the walkabout that they would've bothered with the usual procedure or skipped straight to 'well, everyone will be here soon enough anyway.'

It wouldn't... but I'm not sure if it would just be a network goal. I mean, you'd need to not only be able to pull their mind out but give it somewhere to go.

[thornsofmalkav]

Wouldn't it just end up back where they are when their bodies are protected?

Making a new body for them, though, that would be pretty cool, wouldn't it? But you'd need enough ectoplasm to actually make the thing. At least, that's what I assume Jaunt bodies are made of. So you'd probably have to be in liminal when you did the trick.

[leftbehindagain]

And that might make it difficult if not impossible to get a bead on someone to de-infiltrate them in the first place.

It's an interesting idea, though it may be more trouble than it's worth. Still, if something came of it it'd be damn impressive.

[professorwolf]

I'm another one with the ability to pull people out of infiltrations, as needed, and I can also reach across the divide between Jaunt and walkabout, if anyone wants to contact the others for whatever reason. I can agree, it does seem to be about once a week.

[leftbehindagain]

At the very least, it'd be good for getting an idea of who's where.

[professorwolf]

Yes, most likely.

I'd also like to point out for anyone listening, I also have the ability to listen in on the thoughts of infiltrators. But I don't like to do this without express permission unless it's an obvious emergency, and even then I'm iffy about it.

So anyone who is willing to let me check their infiltrator selves for hidden motives that might be of import on a Jaunt like this, please let me know now, or soon.

[leftbehindagain]

...The things the network enables can be kind of frightening sometimes. [But at least Lyall's likely to be responsible with it. That's something.]

If we go back to Purgatory, I'd have no issue with it, assuming I can't speak for myself. One way or another that's bound to get some useful information out there.

[professorwolf]

It might, if I have the chance to use it. I don't have permission from very many people, and most of them are my pack anyway, so it hardly matters. I can feel a lot of what they're feeling already.

[otomechapilot]

I'm... kind of okay with defending my mind, but getting better really can't hurt, and neither can restoring memories.

I've heard people give permission for it.

[leftbehindagain]

De-infiltrating someone is invasive by its nature, for all it's extremely useful.

Better defenses definitely can't hurt - if you don't need them now, you might need them later. Besides, keeping people out of all of a conversation you don't want them hearing is good for peace of mind.

[otomechapilot]

If the things people are screaming about from Harrowgate are anything like the Nightmares, then... then they ought to be screaming, honestly.

Have they tried to attack Liminal?

[leftbehindagain]

I wasn't around for the jaunt, so I couldn't tell you what happened then. I know one of them got enough of a toehold in Liminal Space to cause problems for months after the fact, but it got cleared out after Nova Venezia.

[otomechapilot]

...yeah where should I meet you for this.

Psychic Protection I
I think I accidentally picked up a few conversations I shouldn't have. I shut that down, but I can do it. Makes me feel squidgy though.

[leftbehindagain]

I'm mostly sticking to Aiya.

[private, double protected]

Unfortunately, a lot of the really useful stuff on the network seems to be invasive in nature, or to key off it. But if you've already got a handle on locking down your own side of a conversation, extending it to the other half isn't much more difficult.

[senpaidol]

I am always up for lessons on psychic stuff. I need to experiment with the punch-through thing in case I picked it up without having a chance to really test it, but de-Infiltrating sounds really useful.

[leftbehindagain]

Well, you got it to work well enough back during the conversation spaces, I just couldn't really answer at the time.

De-infiltrating is really useful. Possibly doubly so because the person's still in their overlay instead of being separated out.

Maybe I should leave links on my skill list to remind myself HOW my characters learned things

[senpaidol]

Right, like Kanji last Jaunt. That's kinda the best position to be in, information-wise.

It's all good.

[leftbehindagain]

Yeah, he mentioned he wasn't sure if I prodded him in the right direction by snapping him back to himself in Greece.

[private, double protected]

It's essentially finding the core of the Traveler somewhere in there and pulling them to the forefront.

[senpaidol]

Man, I spaced out to go save the world with dancing while we were in Greece, and I don't think I missed anything I'd have understood anyway. It sounds really super confusing for something we won...

[Same Protection]

The "core"? That's not anything like a "true self", right?

[leftbehindagain]

You really didn't miss much.

[ditto]

No, that would be another matter entirely. But there is a sense of the person you know in an infiltrator's mind, otherwise they wouldn't be infiltrating.

Private continued

[senpaidol]

So basically, you can look around in an Infiltrator's mind and find the Traveler Version of them in there. I've tried mind-reading on Investigators or people in Liminal Space, but I've never done it to an Infiltrator...

[Otherwise Pogemon would have ended differently, for starters.]

Private continued

[leftbehindagain]

I haven't either, and I hope I never need to. If you can get into someone's head while they're themselves, that seems to be enough to find them inside an infiltrator.

Private continued

[senpaidol]

Hm...that might make it easier, actually. Like, I'm looking for the part of them that would be an Investigator, not rifling through whatever their Overlay is thinking. So the part of them that's familiar and connected to Liminal Space.

Private continued

[leftbehindagain]

Exactly.

Private continued

[senpaidol]

I wish I could practice, but there's no real way to check it out except on a Jaunt. Mind-reading should work, if I can find a volunteer who trusts me with that. Maybe I can practice that so I know what to look for that's different when I'm trying to de-Infiltrator...

Private continued

[leftbehindagain]

That is a problem with some of this stuff. Still, knowing the theory should help, even if you don't get a chance to practice.