Which winner is which

[ninjayeehaw]

I know I can't be the only one what's noticed this, but I gotta ask.

Anyone else wonderin' how Hermit an' Death seem t'have both won?

Comments

[overlevende]

From what I understand two Arcana tying on a jaunt existed in their games before they turned to the knock-out system, so maybe they can still happen?

[awitchdidit]

It doesn't surprise me that those two arranged a longer game than simple victory or defeat. What does surprise me is Hermit's share of the victory.

Death's was obvious. The end of one world order and the instatement of a better one...although I have to wonder if he'd have still claimed victory if my Overlay'd gotten what she wanted. I'm rather glad I'll never know, but still.

A naive analysis of Hermit's victory condition would have been the three species remaining separate in the long term, similar to the time with the mermaids. That clearly wasn't the case this time, though.

[ninjayeehaw]

Figured the point a' the elimination-style they picked up was t'prevent this. 's'what I'm confused over.

[overlevende]

In sports, elemination-style games solve ties by adding more time for the contest or another task - overtime and eleven metre shots in football, and such. In terms of the Arcana that might mean either a special something before the next jaunt starts, or just that they get to do another jaunt to make the postponed decision later?

[leftbehindagain]

Very much so, especially since the kind of major upheaval we brought about wasn't isolation.

Which means Hermit probably wanted something other than isolation to happen, but I'm not sure what, or how it was fulfilled.

[thornsofmalkav]

Since I got back.

Me and Matthew were trying to figure out what Hermit's win conditions must have been, since they can't have been the obvious 'all three races stay apart' one. Unfortunately, neither one of us was really that involved with the Jaunt, so we weren't able to figure it out. But maybe someone else can?

Like, Hermit's things are like isolation, quiet, reflection, self-knowledge... understanding in general, maybe?

[brokers]

If the means are as important as the outcome, it is possible that we served the goals of one with the methods of the other.

[brokers]

Did any of the significant players learn something about themself that had previously been hidden from them?

[otomechapilot]

...By ending an era cause someone thought hard about themselves?

[thornsofmalkav]

Um. Maybe Beatrice figured out that her son had been living with the Forest Folk for the last two decades? Because that was definitely a thing.

[all_onis_are_true]

The question is, did they intend for this to happen? And if not, how will they respond?

[awitchdidit]

That's not so much about herself, but I think the shock of situation may have made her realize a few things about how vile she'd been acting.

[thornsofmalkav]

Oh. Yeah. True. Good point.

Alternately, uh, one of my Infiltration's friends came out? But then again, I think maybe she'd figured out what she was before the Jaunt. So that might not count either.

Ugh. I don't suppose that someone who's got Hermit or Death could try to ask them?

[theflyingone]

Because of the similarities to our time on the Haunted Isle, I had thought Hermit was one of the Jaunt's participants. It explains the additional symbolism this Liminal.

Hermit's win could have been Beatrice reflecting on herself, perhaps. Was there some other important person retreating or reflecting on themselves or understanding something? There were several secrets being revealed of course, but how and to whom? Do we look at Investigators as well?

[ninjayeehaw]

I can't imagine a collaboration a' this level happenin' without both a' them bein' actively in on it.

[overlevende]

Me and Maria were going to ask in that direction, but ...do you think being their marked is very important there?

[And how she wishes she knew how to protect her network conversations right now]

[thornsofmalkav]

It might help? I mean, in getting their attention, if you're trying to make them bring you to their conversation space. If you're just trying to bust on over there by using liminal skills to bridge the divide between our space and theirs, it probably doesn't matter as much.

[notadisappointment]

I was going to visit Death anyway, so I can try asking about this while there.

[pretentiouself]

Am I missing something obvious? How do people know which Arcana were involved, and who won?

Someone mentioned liminal, but I don't understand how people can read it with such certainty.

[uzoda]

Both? What? Really?

[And after a pause, to listen to most of the rest...]

If we're trying to find... reflection and self-knowledge... what about Ren and Eloi? Would that count?

[ninjayeehaw]

Well, personally - I went an' Interfaced one a' the flowers here, got all the info on who made that. But all the Arcana sorta got signature stylin's, usually they go revolvin' 'round their archetypes.

Death an' Hermit just seem t'like bones an' dogs, respectively.

[breakaleginhalf]

Oh right, the wedding.

...maybe? Doesn't sound very Hermit-y, you know? All these people coming together for a big happy occasion.

[breakaleginhalf]

Whoever did the thinking, fucking wasn't Gilligan. He just sort of passed the buck onto someone who would.

[thornsofmalkav]

Awesome. Maybe we can find someone with Hermit to ask him.

[uzoda]

Well, maybe not the WEDDING... But the fact that they had one? Fell in love after... stuff?