Which winner is which

[ninjayeehaw]

I know I can't be the only one what's noticed this, but I gotta ask.

Anyone else wonderin' how Hermit an' Death seem t'have both won?

Comments

[overlevende]

From what I understand two Arcana tying on a jaunt existed in their games before they turned to the knock-out system, so maybe they can still happen?

[ninjayeehaw]

Figured the point a' the elimination-style they picked up was t'prevent this. 's'what I'm confused over.

[overlevende]

In sports, elemination-style games solve ties by adding more time for the contest or another task - overtime and eleven metre shots in football, and such. In terms of the Arcana that might mean either a special something before the next jaunt starts, or just that they get to do another jaunt to make the postponed decision later?

[awitchdidit]

It doesn't surprise me that those two arranged a longer game than simple victory or defeat. What does surprise me is Hermit's share of the victory.

Death's was obvious. The end of one world order and the instatement of a better one...although I have to wonder if he'd have still claimed victory if my Overlay'd gotten what she wanted. I'm rather glad I'll never know, but still.

A naive analysis of Hermit's victory condition would have been the three species remaining separate in the long term, similar to the time with the mermaids. That clearly wasn't the case this time, though.

[leftbehindagain]

Very much so, especially since the kind of major upheaval we brought about wasn't isolation.

Which means Hermit probably wanted something other than isolation to happen, but I'm not sure what, or how it was fulfilled.

[thornsofmalkav]

Since I got back.

Me and Matthew were trying to figure out what Hermit's win conditions must have been, since they can't have been the obvious 'all three races stay apart' one. Unfortunately, neither one of us was really that involved with the Jaunt, so we weren't able to figure it out. But maybe someone else can?

Like, Hermit's things are like isolation, quiet, reflection, self-knowledge... understanding in general, maybe?

[brokers]

Did any of the significant players learn something about themself that had previously been hidden from them?

[thornsofmalkav]

Um. Maybe Beatrice figured out that her son had been living with the Forest Folk for the last two decades? Because that was definitely a thing.

[brokers]

If the means are as important as the outcome, it is possible that we served the goals of one with the methods of the other.

[otomechapilot]

...By ending an era cause someone thought hard about themselves?

[breakaleginhalf]

Whoever did the thinking, fucking wasn't Gilligan. He just sort of passed the buck onto someone who would.

[otomechapilot]

Honestly, that's smart enough that it might count.

...Wise enough. There's a real difference.

[all_onis_are_true]

The question is, did they intend for this to happen? And if not, how will they respond?

[ninjayeehaw]

I can't imagine a collaboration a' this level happenin' without both a' them bein' actively in on it.

[all_onis_are_true]

This seems like something the other Arcana would take issue with. Do you know anything of the personality of those two?

[theflyingone]

Because of the similarities to our time on the Haunted Isle, I had thought Hermit was one of the Jaunt's participants. It explains the additional symbolism this Liminal.

Hermit's win could have been Beatrice reflecting on herself, perhaps. Was there some other important person retreating or reflecting on themselves or understanding something? There were several secrets being revealed of course, but how and to whom? Do we look at Investigators as well?

[thornsofmalkav]

I don't see why we couldn't. I mean, Investigators are part of the Jaunt too. Why, did you guys learn anything important?

[theflyingone]

I thought learning things of importance was the way to make Jaunts successful and not be harmed by the following Liminal anyway.

[ This is the very least he expects of Travelers. One can 'hear' the grumbley lineface in his psychic voice. ]

Where do I begin? Those of us who could sense such things and get close to the Amulet understood why magic was out of balance. Lore and the dig site told us how the Ceremony must be done. I used werewolf form to communicate with a feral Forest Folk to see the state of his mind. He'd forgotten his name and that we had been just conversing. Riddick read Beatrice's mind to find the location of the Amulet pieces she'd hidden. After we stole them, I Interfaced them to learn that three wizards from each race created them to yoke the peoples together. We also saw that Beatrice's overlay did not take kindly to having things stolen, and she attacked the Forest Folk with guns. Then there was a wedding?

[pretentiouself]

Am I missing something obvious? How do people know which Arcana were involved, and who won?

Someone mentioned liminal, but I don't understand how people can read it with such certainty.

[ninjayeehaw]

Well, personally - I went an' Interfaced one a' the flowers here, got all the info on who made that. But all the Arcana sorta got signature stylin's, usually they go revolvin' 'round their archetypes.

Death an' Hermit just seem t'like bones an' dogs, respectively.

[leftbehindagain]

Years of practice and some background knowledge in tarot symbolism, for the most part. Our hosts tend to prefer indirect communication - right before a jaunt there are clues as to who's going to be involved and where it might be. Afterward, there's stuff pointing to who won, if anyone, and how satisfied they are with the result. Screwing up a jaunt entirely is very possible, and the results are not fun.

The messages have gotten clearer lately. I'm not sure if we're getting better at understanding them, they're getting better at leaving clues we're actually likely to pick up on, or a combination of the two.

[uzoda]

Both? What? Really?

[And after a pause, to listen to most of the rest...]

If we're trying to find... reflection and self-knowledge... what about Ren and Eloi? Would that count?

[breakaleginhalf]

Oh right, the wedding.

...maybe? Doesn't sound very Hermit-y, you know? All these people coming together for a big happy occasion.

[haremtrap]

Maybe friendship was the real power all along?

[ninjayeehaw]

Well that just don't sound like Hermit at all. He won the mermaid jaunt 'fore y'all got here 'cos everyone got split up at the end 'f it.