Arcana-talk time [A day or two into the new liminal]

[professorwolf]

We're still assuming that the liminal space before a Jaunt represents the Arcana competing in it, yes? I know someone's mentioned this earlier, but it definitely needs to be highlighted-- I think it's pretty obvious this time that the contest will be between Chariot and Tower. The giant wooden horse running through a thunderstorm really couldn't be more blatant. For once.

[He's not great at understanding symbolism, but damn if this wasn't an easy one.]

So if that's right, it'll be a contest of motion and persistence, versus dramatic change and catastrophe. I think it's easy enough to decide who we want to support, in this case. We'll just have to find ways to make sure we see what sort of conditions make for a win for each ideal.

Any ideas for what to look for and how to keep things from devolving into a catastrophe? Those seem to happen a lot when we're around, unfortunately.

Comments

[haremtrap]

[This psychic network thing is weird but let's roll with it.]

So I've heard people mention jaunts, I think, but not like.

What they are?

[professorwolf]

[Oh dear. This must be someone new.]

Jaunts are where we go when we aren't in this very odd sort of space, here. We're sent out to various worlds to solve problems, preferably in ways that encourage the ideal of one or another of the Arcana. Those are the... beings who send us out.

What have you heard so far?

[leftbehindagain]

I don't know about keeping things from devolving into a catastrophe, but I do know that while reverting to whatever the place's status quo is would stop Tower, it wouldn't be good enough for Chariot.

Basically it'll need affecting a change without setting everything on fire. [No pressure.]

[professorwolf]

Hmm. So keeping on keeping on isn't going to be enough for him? It has to be change, not just regular progress?

[butthemiracleneverhappen]

I agree that avoiding a more catastrophic World is in our best interests.

In this case, it means we must be the change we wish to see in the World, does it not?

[professorwolf]

In some ways, yes, but I think we need to be a bit more strategic than merely trying to embody the ideals we want to see. Some of us, after all, may not have a choice, once we're infiltrated as someone else, and some things may be outside our personal control.

[memoryandtheft]

Is it, though? Sometimes you need dramatic, sweeping change.

Unless you're looking at what's best for us, not necessarily for the world we land on.

[awitchdidit]

Tower as an arcanum is useful for clearing away problems, brokenness, and bondage to the past. It's an important part of existence...but probably not something we want in charge of existence, lest nothing have a chance to be built in the first place before it's cleared away.

It's possible that Tower might have the more ethical objective in the Jaunt, but that becomes a question of whether we are concerned more with one world, or the entire universe that the Arcana are supposedly competing for.

[professorwolf]

I'm looking for what's best for the universe as a whole. Whoever wins this match is one rather large step closer to being reflected throughout all the worlds these Arcana touch, if they're to be believed. Whether a catastrophic change is what this particular world needs might be less important than the fact that not every world needs catastrophic change... particularly when I get the feeling Tower doesn't really care what happens afterwards.

[hazardlight]

Sweeping dramatic change ain't much good without a solid follow up plan, dude.

I ain't happy with the idea of prioritizing our success over a world, but things'd have to be pretty damn dire before "wreck shit and leave" looks more appealing than "accomplish something."

[awitchdidit]

It's difficult to say what path to take without knowing anything about the particulars. That particular matchup seems extremely volatile, however. The best advice I could give is that we should probably decide on a course of action and stick to it as long as it's not obviously headed off a cliff. Hesitation and delay would surely be fatal in this case.

[professorwolf]

Well, I mean, more along the lines of regular check-ins, plans for discovering the motivations of various infiltrators, and perhaps teams of people meant to keep track of each other, whether some of them are infiltrating or not?

[vorenado]

It is unfortunately difficult to devise any worthwhile plan before knowing the details of the battleground in question. Though it seems, between the two options available, one could very easily lead to the other. Too much persistence can lead to a catastrophe, though moving towards a dramatic change may not necessarily be a bad thing in the end.

[professorwolf]

I don't think that persistence is the only trait to look at here, either. We may wind up diverting a dramatic change through some other kind of motion or determination. And even if dramatic change might be a good idea for one world... think of all the other worlds that might be affected if Tower winds up winning this whole thing.

Regardless, we need some sort of game plan going in. Regular check-ins, plans for discerning what the various infiltrators want, that sort of thing.

[what_do_you_see]

Sometimes you need to sweep away the dead wood, start over.

[professorwolf]

You won't find me arguing that each Arcana's ideal doesn't have its time and place. In order to become the type of werewolf I am, for example, I had to die. That's quite a catastrophic change, but we had people lining up for the chance.

My concern is that whoever wins this particular engagement will be one step closer to affecting the whole of the universe, if they're to be believed. I don't know that a universe full of catastrophic change in most people's best interests.

[runawaystory]

It's going to be quite a balancing act... We'll have to work with what's already in motion. So start with gathering as much info on all sides as possible?

[professorwolf]

Yes, I think so. I'm hoping to get more people willing to give me permission to read their thoughts and intentions if they're infiltrating, as well. We may need that edge of knowing who wants to do what.

[truerevelation]

I'm ... just gonna add a bit more on the symbolism stuff for now? Chariot's as much about 'control' and 'determination' and 'victory' as it is moving.
A big change can still happen if ... if that's the best thing, if that's what folks decide. It's just gotta be under control. No big disaster or ... burnin' the place down.

[Kanji privately adds to Lyall:]

Gonna come clean though. Chariot's mine. And I trust it a lot more than I trust Tower.

[professorwolf]

That's good to know. We do still have the tendency to set Jaunts on fire. It's turned into something of a meme, these days. So I'm all for change, if we manage to do it carefully.

[Private, no protections:]

I believe I do, as well, if just from what I've heard in this conversation, but also from what it represents in the tarot. Equally coming clean, mine is Judgment, and I'm admittedly rather partial to some of its meanings and goals, but I'm willing to settle for anything that won't make the universe a more difficult and inhospitable place.

[helborn]

I'm new here, so I wouldn't be able to tell you what to expect, but... well. The Tower is disaster, upheaval, sudden change, and revelation. The Chariot is control, will power, victory, assertion, and determination. If I had to guess, I'd say it's a battle between order and chaos. Order isn't always the best thing to go by, either... but it depends what the fallout of the chaos would be.

If the fact that we're in a Trojan Horse is anything to go by, we'll be dealing with Greece, and possibly Bronze Age. The Trojan War was about... somewhere in the 1100 B.C.E. range? I think around there, anyway.

Needless to say, we're looking at a culture that's very war-focused. Do what you can to avoid being drafted into the war. Yell for help if you need it. Stay away from anyone named Paris, Achilles, or Ajax for a start.

[professorwolf]

It may not be a Trojan Horse specifically. Chariot, the Arcana version of it, is in fact shaped like a horse himself. But if it is, then Greece... could be interesting. The Rome Jaunt was very laid back and quiet, comparatively, but with Tower in the mix, I doubt this will be.

If you have any questions, I've been at this for about two years now. I'd be happy to explain as I can.

[rustyhonesty]

One thing that'll likely help is to make me an infiltrator if I'm not one automatically. Last time we had a Tower jaunt, I definitely screwed up.

[It's likely he didn't mean to actually answer with that, but it just came up in his thoughts with the subject.]

[professorwolf]

That doesn't mean you will again, especially if you know now what's going on. What happened last time, if I may ask?

[Private]

[triggerhappytraitor]

Keep an eye on Hajime.

[Private]

[professorwolf]

I always do. I will make a particular effort to this time, though.

[He knows who Hajime's Arcana is. That Mark is kind of impossible to mistake. And he knows why he's been chosen that way, as well.]

This infiltrator persona thing is terribly useful, I must say. Even if I wind up not entirely myself, I will still be able to keep track of things.

[chalicejoker]

Tower can't win. We can't let that happen.

[professorwolf]

I know, Hajime. We'll do what we can.

It's a bit redundant to ask, given the pack bond remains whether or not you're infiltrated, but may I have permission to read your thoughts and intentions should you be infiltrating on the next Jaunt?

[Pack bond is useful and helpful, but having permission for something direct like that might allow for important distinctions. Normally he wouldn't come out and ask just like this, but this is a Tower Jaunt. And Hajime is very, very Tower.]

And now for something completely different

[reallymean]

So we know who the main players are likely to be.

Would you be willing to give an overview of the way these contests usually unfold? For the sake of those of us who are newly arrived or were long absent?

[professorwolf]

Of course, miss. Welcome-- or welcome back, if you're one of the latter.

[Not that it's exactly pleasant to be here, but still.]

I'm afraid there isn't much of a "usually" to be told, though. Every Jaunt is a bit different. The main points are: we usually show up when some large event is about to unfold, but we aren't necessarily there to partake in that event. Sometimes we're there to stop it, sometimes it's just to give an excuse for so many strangers to show up at once. There's always some sort of mystery to be uncovered, though it could be anything from "what are these programs searching for" to "is the Emperor attacking his own people to divide the factions in his empire" to "who should this young lady marry". Some Jaunts, obviously, are more... world-changing than others.

We haven't in my time here had a Jaunt where we haven't intervened in some way. Sometimes we know what exactly we did to change things, sometimes it isn't very clear. The ones where we did a lot of match-making weren't very clear, but the ones where we chose a side in a revolution certainly were.

[laceandcarnage]

This is the Tower that Marked me, when I was Izanami?

...Will this contest between him and Chariot allow me the opportunity to rend the flesh form his bones and fashion his internal organs into a hat?

[fridgeninja]

...

Probably not.

[papacerberus]

[Lupa's been listening to things quietly as is his wont, and trying to avoid the private conversations--a lot harder now that he accidentally filter intrusion. And he thinks it's about time he expressed his thoughts.]

I'm not certain it's possible, but I would suggest trying for a draw, or a situation in which the match is forfeit and they must both continue on to a rematch. A delaying tactic until we can find a way to adjust the game itself. Just one of the Arcana winning is not ideal, no matter which one it is. Many of them represent excellent qualities, but the expression 'too much of a good thing' exists for a reason.

As an example, when I spoke to Emperor, who marked me, I inquired in depth about what he represents. I discovered that he represents all order, and the results of the last jaunt should be an obvious reason why that can be terrible for worlds. Order can be a good thing, but when it becomes cold, or proud, it's ruinous. In my own world, there are numerous examples that fit Emperor's ideals, and none of them were good things, and how things ended in both the Junkyard and the world outside, I suspect, would greatly fit into Tower's representation. In spite of lives lost and destruction, that was a very good thing in the end. Increasing Emperor's influence, and diminishing Tower's, would have made that ending far less likely.

That is why I think we should work towards an end to this in which all Arcana are represented equally. They all have a place, and act as balances to the excesses of each other. Emperor dismissed it immediately as impossible, but they are so bound by what they represent that I wouldn't count his answer as full and complete. We are not so bound, and we have so many that are creative, intelligent and determined; if any group can find a way to alter the game in such a way, I'm sure it's us.

Private:

[truerevelation]

... I. I get what you're saying. If we ever get the chance to try 'n swing the game like that... I see what you mean. And if whoever wins can bring Temperance back, that... I think that's gonna help keep 'em in balance.

But - I'm. I'm sorry, Leader. [Yes, he just dropped the title. This is serious.]
This Jaunt... I can't do it. Even if I am me for it.

[not_the_question]

[He talks like he's been around awhile, but he hasn't.]

Everyone is focusing on this chess match. And while we're definitely caught up in it, I'm far more concerned about the innocent by-standers in these Jaunt things. Plus there's something else to think about: If we really are headed towards the Trojan War, then that is a fixed point in time. We cannot change it. Neither the fact that it happened, nor its results. To do so would result in a tidal wave of changes that could destroy the whole universe. Maybe all universes, given the number of different universes represented here.

[He's really not a fatalist, except when he is.]

[professorwolf]

[ ... oh look. It's you again. Weirdo.]

I don't actually believe the worlds we visit are our worlds, sir. You'll find that there are people here from many, many different versions of Earth, or other worlds, but the Earths we visit-- for we have been to several-- are not theirs or ours. Regardless, however, we have intervened in various worlds before, and then returned to them later. Nothing has ever been destroyed. Changed, at times, certainly-- but it takes a little more than a few bumbling Travelers supporting this cause or that to destroy a whole world.

Besides, simply arriving on these worlds and doing nothing on purpose has affects. There is literally no way to not affect the worlds we're visiting. And even if we tried to have no effect, sometimes not interfering means more of those innocent bystanders are harmed.

[maximumest]

[why is everyone in his head.]

How are we to support one or the other? What sort of situation are we headed into that it's easy to go, do this thing or don't do that thing?

[what_do_you_see]

It's not.

[phobophage]

[She'd been following some of the other public conversations because she's finding this to be of great interest to her.]

I've seen what the Tower stands for bring both negative and positive change. But I'm going to be figuring out a way to turn this against him, because being ruled by catastrophic change would just mean many'd die. Messing around with alternative options can wait for another time. This would be easier if most of my capabilities hadn't been taken away from me for who knows what reason. That only leaves me with the knowledge of someone who's been around in that time period.

I'm with the Moon, by the way.

[professorwolf]

I'm afraid the Arcana do tend to limit some people's powers, or exchange them for others, for unknown reasons. We've speculated that they fear some of those powers may break their rules, or might make us dangerous to them, or might even simply not work in this place because it lacks some aspect of whatever world you come from. You'll pick up more, new ones as time goes by, powers that suit the worlds we visit or manipulating liminal space or interacting with the psychic network.

What do you mean by "that time period"? The talk of it being the Trojan War, you mean?